bertram31.com

Time has come to freshen my engine boxes and cockpit side and aft panels. I've found a supplier nearby with 3/8 Azek in 10' sheets for the side and aft panels and I'll use the old panels as templates. Not sure what paint was used by the previous owner who painted the entire boat just before selling. I'll assume it was Awlgrip because I know he painted the hull with it. In any event, chip matches lead me to Hatteras White and I'm asking if there's a preference between topside paints like Brightside or Awlgrip or if there are other options I should consider. Everything will be sprayed in a booth.
Thanks for you input.

Around this part of the world it seems that the prevailing wisdom is that if you are going to have a professional do the painting you are probably best off to use whatever paint system he is most familiar with.

When I had my B33 painted I did all the prep work and priming, and had a pro shoot the paint. He chose Awlcraft 2000 (Made by Akzo Nobel, the same people who makes Awlgrip), This turned out to be a great choice for two reasons..

First, it is very easy to apply.. I have done modifications to the boat since he painted it, and I painted them myself, with very acceptable results. (BTW, many of these new parts were made with the same material as Azek, namely 3/8" PVC)

Second, Awl Grip lays down with a pigment layer on the bottom and what might be considered a clear coat on top, while Awlcraft 2000 lays down like a traditional paint with a single pigmented layer throughout. This is much easier to touchup when repairs are needed.. again, I have done touchups on my boat that blended very well with the original paint.

Both paints share the same color card, so color availability is not a decision factor when choosing one over the other.

I can't speak for any other paint systems, or if Akzo Nobel has introduced new systems in the past 4 years since my boat was painted.

Frank,

Thanks for the explanations.
Do you suggest this Awlcraft 2000 for both tops AND hull?
Thank you.

PS: Question: What is best to happen at the lower rear sides where the hull color meets the antifouling? Do you stop the paint above the antifouling level OR do you go full color all the way and then cover with antifouling? I'm asking this, because when my B28 hull was repainted by a previous owner they stopped the paint right at the paint/antifouling line; the bottom and lower rear sides are not painted with the "sky blue" hull color.

Yannis - our 31 is Awlcraft 2000 to the waterline. Right at that line and continuing down, it was blasted last year, barrier coated, 1 marker coat, and 3 regular coats of bottom paint, so the topside paint stops right at the barrier coat line. Same Awlcraft 2000 is on cabin and decks, been on the boat now for I believe 18 years, holding up very well. They say not to wax Awlgrip or Awlcraft, but ours was waxed by previous owner, looks great, so we're using the same wax they've used for years on it (MaryKate Maxi-Wax).

Bob,

Thank you.
The thing with the 28 is that the waterline is NOT so easily defined as in the 31. The 31 has a distinctive water line where the clearly defined chine meets the bottom. The 28 waterline comes up on the sides by - depending on weight etc - around 10-20 cm at the rear corner, and it fades progressively as you go towards the bow. That part which is not well defined is my mystery question, should I paint the side all the way down to where it angles with the bottom, or should I stop at those 10-20 cm up; and ....how much is that "up" !! Is there a problem if awlcraft and antifouling overlap by 10-20 cm?

Thanks, IRGuy. I'm having the paint done at an automotive shop with no advice on marine paints. But your info about the product differences is helpful. The engine hatches will get a fair amount of foot traffic on top so I want some durability.

Paint is the easy part. Prep and primers are the key to success. At a minimum, they'll need to prep the surface and shoot 545. You might want to review the Awlgrip application guide that is available on line.

if you are doing it yourself keep in mind awlgrip is also self leveling, makes for an easy application via gun.

Yannis...

The Awlcraft 2000, as well as Awlgrip and probably all other marine paints, I believe, can all be used for the hull sides down to the waterline as well as the deck and cabin sides and flybridge.

I have seen many boats where the hull paint extended to almost exactly the waterline, and over several months in the water green slime and other growth started to grow on the hull paint where it was at the waterline. When I had my boat painted I had a clear old waterline (because the hull had some discoloration of old paint, even after sanding) and I had the original waterline taped so the painter knew where to stop. Then when I painted the bottom myself I raised the waterline a couple of inches (2.5 centimeters per inch) and now my bottom paint extends a couple of inches farther up the hull than original. My personal preference is to have a couple of inches of bottom paint show so there is never any growth possible at the waterline.

You can apply bottom paint over properly sanded and prepared hull side paint, but you can not apply hull side paint on top of bottom paint. On the many boats I have bottom painted I simply applied masking tape on the hull paint to define the waterline I wanted and applied bottom paint up to it.

CamB25 is correct, any time you apply hull topside paint over bare or repaired fiberglas you should first apply the proper primer paint, sand it smooth and to very slightly roughen the surface to give it some “tooth” or slight roughness for the topside paint to “hold on to”. For this I recommend Akzo Nobel’s 545 primer. Again Cam’s comment is correct, proper preparation of the bare surface and then the primer surface is the key to a beautiful paint job.

Frank,

Thank you for your explanation.

What I gather from this, is that one can extend the hull color for a couple of inches BELOW the bottom paint. I'm fine with that.
However, can this two component surface (bottom paint over awlcraft) be under water?
The reason I'm asking is because somebody told me that a hull side color (awlgrip, awlcraft, etc) does NOT like to be submerged permanently into water. True ? False ? Can you, or someone else, please specify this?
(I also do like to extend the bottom paint a few cm up on the sides, to avoid slime build up).

One point: What requires a definition is the word "waterline", which in English it could mean TWO things!!!
First, it is the line that you deliberately draw to separate the colors and the materials used; this is a personal call, as you just explained.
Second, it is the line where the water level meets the boat. This can be different from the former...

My question then,rephrased, is, is it OK if ANY PART of the hull color which is found under the bottom paint can be BELOW the line where the WATER meets the boat?
Thank you.

Yannis - our 31 sits heavy, I believe how the hulls were designed, so the natural chine is below the water all the time. Our bottom paint is a bit higher. It may not have the sleek look when you see the boat out of the water, but it is more functional, more protection. To keep a bit of space between the bottom paint and boot stripe, we left a 1/2" between the two. Again, the lines are not directly along the chine, but when loaded they are an inch or two under water all the time. This is a shot right after launching last year when the bottom/bootstripe etc. had just been painted, before full fuel loading. It sits an inch or so lower than this photo shows.

Bob, thank you, but you're not telling me if your hull paint is behind your bottom paint , permanently under water.

Yannis..

If I understand you correctly .. You are asking if it is OK to extend the hull paint down below the waterline to an area where it will later be covered by bottom paint, the answer is yes. I believe the hull paints available today can all tolerate being underwater as long as these areas are then protected by bottom paint before the boat is put back in the water.

The term "waterline" can be confusing because here in the US, at least, it can mean the point of the water/hull interface, but it can also mean the line where the bottom paint and the hull paint meet, which is usually a small distance above the water, depending on the boat owner's preference.

CamB25 is correct, any time you apply hull topside paint over bare or repaired fiberglas you should first apply the proper primer paint, sand it smooth so you very slightly roughen the surface to give it some “tooth” for the topside paint to “hold on to”. For this I recommend Akzo Nobel’s 545 primer. Again Cam’s comment is correct, proper preparation of the bare surface and then the primer surface is the key to a beautiful paint job.

Yannis wrote:Bob, thank you, but you're not telling me if your hull paint is behind your bottom paint , permanently under water.

Yannis, I really don't see the problem here... Personally if I were you I would just scuff the hull paint (to provide "teeth" for the bottom pant to "grab") and extend the bottom paint 5cm up from the actual water line and see what happens... If you're that worried you should contact the tech support of the "copper" product you're using... That's one of the reasons why they have tech support... A simple email (don't forget to specify the make of your hull paint) should get you the official answer...

Frank, thank you.

Nav, no, this is EXACTLY what I dont want.
I dont want to see bottom paint on the sides. I'll paint my boat white with white bottom paint without a boot stripe.

And I havent had any "copper whatever" yet.

Yannis wrote:I dont want to see bottom paint on the sides. I'll paint my boat white with white bottom paint without a boot stripe.

I still don't see the problem... White bottom paint going 5 cm up into white hull paint wouldn't be visible from more then a few yards (meters) away...

Yannis wrote:And I havent had any "copper whatever" yet.

Ah... Sorry... I understood otherwise... One thing's for sure, they don't make that in white... Maybe you too should look into the ultrasonic solution?!...

The other option to this is if you are just fishing off the beach or short runs, keep her half empty and fill it when you head offshore. That is what we do. Since I put the diesels in and we beefed up the hull around the struts the chines are underwater when she is full.

When we had the gas engines, full of fuel she would sit with the chine just above the water. So for me the only time the Chine is under water is when we first go in, go offshore and come out for the winter.

The exact line where our bottom paint starts is the point where the previous bottom paint was blasted to gel coat, then barrier coated, and bottom paint applied. The exact point above that is where the top sides paint starts. There is no Awlcraft 2000 under any of our bottom paint.

A friend gave me the contact number of the company that buys the paints from Akzo Nobel and provide the services associated (sanding, barrier coating, primer, final paint etc). Apparently they are the most serious in doing this kind of job.
I will contact them next week and ask them about this specific question of color layer overlapping and what if awlgrip can stay submerged permanently.
Thank you all for the specific details you provided.

Yannis

All grip will probably blister if it is submerged for any length of time.

Yes, Tony, that's what I suspect too.
But just because I got somehow "dubious" answers to this specific question, (because in the 31 it's much easier with the chine), I thought I should question the guys who know, since it's their job.
Also, it is a good opportunity to ask them the "how much" type of questions too.
I can start dreaming of a white boat....

No paint will say it can stay submerged. If you dont antifoul it the paint will blister below waterline, usually small ones. If you dont like it after a season strike a waterline, sand, a coat or 2 of 2000e and the antifouling.

It wont hurt the paint above the waterline unless a big sheeet peels off but that would be the fault of the prep not the paint.

Thank you, Raybo.

i have customers who keep imron bottoms in all season long, pulling it every week or two, washing, and putting them right back in.
small dime sized blisters usually more of them along the waterline itself, maybe from the light?