More regulatory bad news for the Gulf

[Capt. Mike Holmes]

Charter captains in Texas who have been getting around the federal red snapper restrictions somewhat by fishing in Texas waters, where the season is open year round, the bag limit is still 4, instead of 2, and the size limit is a bit more liberal are about to be torpedoed by the Gulf Council, which is considering a proposal to require charter and head boats with a federal reef fish permit, also holders of commercial permits, to obey federal regulations when fishing in state waters. This is probably the first step towards requiring all state regulations to mirror federal regs, since right now any angler can fish outside state waters, and if boarded coming in claim they were only a few miles out. Unless they are seen by the Coast Guard, there is no way to prove they aren't telling the truth.

Just another nail in the coffin of small charterboat operations.

[daydreams]

Its sad. Its typical of our gov making it harder to make money while requiring more to cover their salary and benefit increases' I'm sure if you told the DEC or coast gaurd that you were in legal waters that they would believe you and treat you with respect. [yea right]

[Bruce]

They only do it because we allow them to.

If the lazy citizens of this country would get off their asses and vote, things would be much better.
Can't expect anything more when you let the patients run the mental ward.

Message from RFA:
The chair is against the wall, the chair is against the wall.
John has a long mustache, John has a long mustache.

We now resume our regular programming.

[Eddy G]

Bruce, I couldn't agree with you more. But help me to understand this, two months ago there were ten or more candidates gunning for president. Now it's down to a woman, a muslum and a 71 year old veteran and I haven't had a chance to vote yet! I thought in a democracy, everyone had an equal opportunity to choose their leaders. From where I'm sitting, it doesn't seem that way.

Eddy G.

[Capt. Mike Holmes]

It gets worse at electoral high school time, but even worser than that, the actual president has probably alread been picked by those REALLY in power a long time ago.

[Bruce]

The power doesn't lay in the president.

It lays in the congressmen and senators in each state. Those positions are much more important than the office of president.

They are the ones who introduce legislation. They are the ones who will listen to large voting blocks of citizens.

I've been part of a group to introduce legislation here in Florida to have the constitution and bill of rights taught in the schools(imagine that).

I've been to Tallahassee and have seen our reps do a full 180 on issues only because enough people from their districts let them know they weren't happy and come next election they should be looking for other work.

Over burdened federal legislation on boaters and recreational and small charter operations can be changed, eliminated if enough of the people it affects get together and bombard their reps.

Remember what Al Gore said after losing the election?
He lost because of his stance on gun rights. Also after the assault weapons ban was passed in 94, those who voted for it and were up for re election in most states got booted out.

There's power in numbers. There needs to be a national organization like the NRA for boaters that looks out for boaters and small time fishermen who will alert its members when Washington is fixen to give them the cattle prod.

Boat Useless as we saw in the Ethanol problems is a day late and more than a few dollars short. The power squadren is more a party group with some education and the Coastie Aux is mostly education.

We need a political group to save the boating and fishing industry.

Freedom isn't free. It takes alot of work to keep track of what they do in Washington.
Most people don't or in most casses won't make the time.
Don't forget our revolution was driven by only a few men. The majority of colonists didn't support it.

BTW, you know what a Democracy is...

2 wolves and a sheep discussing what's for dinner.

A republic, which is what we have is..

2 wolves and a well armed sheep discussing what's for dinner.

[daydreams]

I belong to 2, top notch associations for Home Inspectors in NY and we pay people to sit in on the legislator meetings report back to us and then lobby on our behalf.

[Capt. DQ]

Capt. Mike,
Quote:
This is probably the first step towards requiring all state regulations to mirror federal regs, since right now any angler can fish outside state waters, and if boarded coming in claim they were only a few miles out. Unless they are seen by the Coast Guard, there is no way to prove they aren't telling the truth.

That is what most fisherman would say, but if the Coasties want to press the point, make sure your GPS trac lines are turned off because that is where there going to look.

Bruce,

You are right that there is power in numbers, but it takes the power of one to start it.

R,
DQ

[Capt. Mike Holmes]

I really don't think the Coast Guard here locally are bright enough to do that, and it was the director of coastal fisheries for the Texas Parks & Wildlife Dept who told me, "Well, if we don't see ythem fishing outside state waters, we can't prove it." Whay most of them do is fish offshore most of the day, then stop on a spot inside state waters coming in and sit there a while for appearances sake.

Not that I know any recreational fishermen who would cheat.

[JohnCranston]

Mike,
I don't know anyone who cheats either.

[Capt. Mike Holmes]

John, thanks! I had been feeling a little down, but your reply left me laughing so hard i couldn't help but cheer up.

[Capt. DQ]

Capt. Mike,

Me neither.

R,
DQ

[Harv]

I really don't think the Coast Guard here locally are bright enough to do that, and it was the director of coastal fisheries for the Texas Parks & Wildlife Dept who told me, "Well, if we don't see ythem fishing outside state waters, we can't prove it." Whay most of them do is fish offshore most of the day, then stop on a spot inside state waters coming in and sit there a while for appearances sake.

Not that I know any recreational fishermen who would cheat.

Don't know about your part of the woods, but in New York, we have proximaty to 4 other states that have different fishing regs than we have. The basic rule here is, where you are fishing doesn't matter as much as where you land the fish. Meaning that whether New Jersey, Conn., Rhode Island, or Mass. have more lenient regulations, if I land the fish in New York, I have to follow NY regulations. Many times, I have seen boats from NJ fishing the Long Island shores and keeping more fish and smaller fish than I could because the fish would be landed in NJ, which had more favorable regulations than NY.

[Capt. Mike Holmes]

Harv, if you fish in Texas, you pretty much land your fish there - too damn far to go to anywhere else. We not only have the longest coastline on the Gulf or Atlantic, but we have a foreign country on either side - Mexico to the south, Louisiana to the east. Our problem is the difference between our state regulations which hold up to 9 miles offshore, and the federal regs that take effect beyond 9 miles. There is constant friction here. For a long time we didn't need a state fishing license to fish in offshore waters past 9 miles. Recently they got that changed, and if fish are landed in a Texas port, gotta have Texas fishing license. I am expecting within my fishing lifetime to see constant regs from the beach to the 200 mile national waters boundary.

[Harv]

Capt. Mike,

I tend to agree that these regulations will probably be standardized. In NY, the state waters reach to 3 miles off the beach. But like you, in order to land the fish in NY you need to have the NY paperwork to go with it.

[John Brownlee]

Mike:

I'm surprised Texas doesn't automatically align with federal rules as a matter of course. That's standard procedure for most states, for the very reasons you state. Lack of uniformity creates enforcement nightmares.

Unfortunately, the stock information on red snapper is bleak, and will be until we do something about shrimp trawling. That's the real problem, always has been, always will be. Unless we stop it.

[John Brownlee]

Oh yeah, and I do believe Florida's coastline is the longest.

[Capt. DQ]

Dolphins are the winners here in the Gulf of Mexico.

DQ

[Capt. Mike Holmes]

John, I guess I was just counting the Gulf coast. The Texas Parks & Wildlife people have never believed the bleak picture painted by NOAA Fisheries was true - at least in Texas waters. For many years they tried to get the Gulf divided into two regulatory bodies, so the fragile snaps in Florida could be protected, but not at the expense of Texas fishermen. We also have no scarcity of triggerfish.

I'm sure shrimping takes a toll, but so will recreational and commercial discards from culling to get a decent 2 fish limit (recs only here). As Doug said, the porpoise are the big problem - they eat everything a boat throws back, and will learn to take snapper off the hook - even kingfish. There has never been a realistic survey of snapper populations. The methodology may not exist, but computer programs don't get the job done. We have offerred to take fisheries personal on boats so they can actually see what a snapper looks like, we've offerred to put divers with cameras down to help get better survey numbers, but they stick to half assed telephone creel surveys and computer projections, carefully tuned to get the numbers they were looking for. I see Bill Hogarth has resigned, and I expect the snapper fiasco had something to do with that.

I could go on and on, but, I'm sort of tired of doing it, after all these years.

[Kevin]

In Florida you can catch your Federal limits in federal water and return to port. Do not stop and fish on the way back in. Most guys target something such as cobia, which in my neck of the woods is well into federal water. If you have a federal limit and I stop you a mile from the dock, fantastic, good for you. "where did you catch your fish"? "about 20 miles northof here". "OK, have a nice day." This is of course holds true that I do not feel The paid charter captain is just taking his buddies from Minnestota fishing, because charter captains are never getting paid here if you know what I mean. Your track line can not and will not be used against you unless you are about 65 feet in length and you have nets hanging off the side of your boat and you got caught dragging in state water. That is a different story. Unless you guys are shrimpers do not worry about where you are seen. If you feel so inspired to to so, you can lie about it (fishing location) and win every time. Can't be proved. Just my .02 coming from soon to be X water cop. Got to go, I hear the manatee are running and I 'm starvin.

[John Brownlee]

Kevin:

You jumping to the FHP like we talked about?

JB

[Capt. Mike Holmes]

I heard a rumor a few years ago that the Coast Guard locally was stopping charter boats and checking safety equipment, fish, and for alcohol violations. I called the local station, the kid I talked to said that couldn't be true, "we don't mess with charter boats". Again, locally, they don't mess with unlicensed or unpermitted charter boats, either, as I tried to raise their awareness of people operating openly and illegally. When a friend of mine was Chief Petty Officer here, he told me he wasn't aware a federal permt was required, and they certainly weren't instructed to check for them. Said he had enough trouble getting his guys to tell the difference between inspected and uninspected vessels, and al they had to do in that case was count passengers. The people who lose, as always, are those who play by the rules and obtain the proper license, permits, insurance, alcohol testing kits, etc.

[Kevin]

Yeah, the coasties really do not put a great deal of time into federal fisheries. Don't get me wrong they do have patrols on 110's that do nothing but that but the majority of what they do is SAR and homeland security duties. Around here you will not see a samll boat patrol duing fisheries checks. Safety and BUI yes, but guess who they would call if they got a guy who is sloshed.
FHP.......most definetley no! Like any group there are some good ones and there are bad ones. I could not tell you how many times I have stopped on the side of the road to back them up and they look at me with that I don't need anybodies help on a traffic stop look...if they even acknowledge you at all. Like I said, friends with some of them but the vast majority seem to have issues. Could not do that job. Most likly goiong to end up in Marion county which is where Ocala is. Still have some stuff to finish up with the process for the Sherrif's Office though. Wanna buy a boat?

[John Brownlee]

Ocala? Say it ain't so! Half the Keys are moving there, and it is beautiful country ,close to where I grew up. But to paraphrase Lou Gossett Jr., "Ocala? Ain't but two things come from Ocala! Steers, and...." Well, never mind.

I hope it works out great for you, the Keys will miss your dedication. You're right, you guys (FWC enforcement personnel) are the ONLY ones paying attention.

[wmachovina]

John, where are you in Islamorada, I lived 3 doors from the Coasties in Venetian Shore for 22 years, now in Stuart

[John Brownlee]

Bill:

i'm in Venetian Shores too, eight streets back, on Milano.

[Capt. Mike Holmes]

John, I just found out that the Texas Parks & Wildlife Dept decided NOT to mirror federal snapper regs, at least for 2008. While acknowledging that if they did go along with the shortened season and 2 fish bag it would make Gulf law enforcement easier and perhaps help in a Gulf-wide snapper program, they got almost 100% negative response in public meetings, and they feel snapper recruitment in Texas has been on the upswing because of reduced shrimping effort and bycatch (hard to shrimp with the price of diesel and competition from foreign sources and shrimp farms). They also do not have much faith in NMFS numbers or methodology in estimating snapper catches or population numbers.

I am assuming, however, that if the proposal to require charter boats with a federal reef fish permit to follow federal rules in state waters passes, that part at least will hold true in Texas waters, also.

Something I wasn't aware of is a proposal by NMFS to prohibit taking blacktip and bull sharks in federal waters next year. TP&WD is not planning to go along with that, either. It appears that offshore sportfishing is about to become a very selective sport, to say the least.

I will have a chance to visit with the TP&WD directors at the Texas Outdoor Writer's Conference next weekend, and will be asking them questions on these subjects. Could be a story in it for SWS, if you're interested?