Getting started on the 28'

Nelson2122 · Post by **Nelson2122** » Jan 26th, '23, 09:27

Started digging in this week on the new project. Pulled most of the rug off the V birth sides and took the pulpit and anchor roller off. I will likely install a s/s anchor roller and reuse the windlass the boat came with. Ill need to do some glass work on the bow for all that to fit back together nicely.
What should I be looking for or replacing now that the v birth is wide open?
What are the common materials and methods used to re skin the v birth?
Any anchor lockers mods that are a must?

Yannis · Post by **Yannis** » Jan 26th, '23, 10:34

Beautiful!

Do you plan to carry chain? How long?

Depending on your answer I’ll ask you to send me your mail, I have tons of step by step pics on cabin skin, pulpit, roller, windlass, you name it.

Good luck.

Nelson2122 · Post by **Nelson2122** » Jan 26th, '23, 11:56

Ill be anchoring pretty shallow most of the time. I figured I'd carry 50-70ish feet of chain, open to suggestions though. Ill take any detail pictures I can get, nelsonjr483@yahoo.com. Thank you.

Yannis · Post by **Yannis** » Jan 26th, '23, 15:41

Fine.

For starters, you might want to raise the vertical part of the step that the chain rests on. Otherwise, you might end up with a dismantled forward bulkhead and find the chain on the cabin sole up to the cabin door.
As I said, I have plenty of pics but Im out of home, I’ll be back on Tuesday.

Continue to getting rid of the glue on the sides, best method for me was sand paper, then acetone, then more sandpaper, then more acetone, don't let the acetone stay too long, you rub quickly and let evaporate.

Ill be back as my pics are in the home laptop...

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Jan 26th, '23, 22:55

Nelson

Watch Yannis suggestion for chain length. He is in Greece and he carries about a mile of chain to anchor up.

There have been a bunch of options for skinning the area around the bunks. The one I really like used either Teak or Mahogany. But if you go to Sail Rite they have a lot of different material covering options.

Here are a couple of links you might find helpful.

https://www.sailrite.com/How-to-Reuphol ... rest-Video

https://www.sailrite.com/How-to-Install ... Foam-Video

Yannis · Post by **Yannis** » Jan 27th, '23, 00:23

Haha Tony, a mile of chain? That was funny!
I carry 55 meters of 8mm galvanized chain (not stainless) and it is sometimes not enough, but enough is enough as the weight after a point becomes an issue. Also the chain locker height is a parameter, as the galvanized chain has the tendency to pile up and sometimes can reach the locker roof.

On the other hand the stainless chain piles up like butter and almost never twists or gets blocked by its own weight, HOWEVER, the stainless has three disadvantages; too expensive, too fragile-it may snap on you under extreme conditions, and, just because of this, you need to size up (say from 8mm to 10mm), which brings on additional weight.

Nelson,

I don't know if its any different over there, but here in the Aegean we say that in order to be safe you need 3 boat lengths of anchor chain lying on the sea bed, plus whatever the depth.
So in shallowish waters of, say, 10 meters, you would need 10m+ (3x 9m)=37m , plus the angle of chain, roughly 40m of chain.
This is a calculation for overnight anchoring, where you would hate to have to wake up and fend your boat off the rocks, however, for a day swimming and enjoying the sea with your friends etc, where you can quickly adjust whatever needs to be adjusted (provided you can still walk straight), then for 10m of depth you would only need to pay around 25m of chain.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Jan 27th, '23, 09:01

With everything open and exposed, it might be a good time to check for water leaks. Hull to topside connection under rub rail, around hatch and windows...a good hosing with someone inside to see. A lousy feeling to finish a remodel only to have it ruined by a leak.

How you choose to redo the interior I'd think has alot to do on how the boat will be used by you. Do you plan on using as a weekender and like a posh look? It can be upholstered with fine fabrics, leather etc. Something a bit more rugged, an easy, tried, and true is a rug glued to the hull. Some have faired and painted for an ez to clean, modern n brite look. Covering with sheets of finished panels of fiberglass, and or plastic polymers is a route. While others have finished with a wood worked flair and there is of course a combination of any n all. It all goes back to what you like, willing to pay for, and/or your abilities.

Chain, rope n anchor...before buying anything I would see how others in your area of use setup their boats. Up here in my area, about 5' of chain with a danforth style anchor is the norm for our size boats. At least it is here in the bay, with more chain for offshore.

Yannis is over in Greece where the bottom is very different and they do that Mediterranean-style docking with an anchor off the bow, backing into a bulkhead thing. A long scope on anchor as we use here, I think that would be frowned upon by others trying to get past in front of you.

Welcome aboard

Yannis · Post by **Yannis** » Jan 27th, '23, 09:51

Carl,

I agree on everything.
And this is exactly the reason, as you describe it, why we don't like rope on our anchor. As it is extended forward at a shallow angle and at a distance from our bow, if a lousy captain passes near in front of you the propellers may cut your rope; hence all chain.

As for the alternative of prefab fiberglass surfaces to cover the cabin sides (like I did), you need a clever technician, as there are two different slopes to accommodate; the upper-lower curvature plus the twist in the forward-aft axis.

Nelson2122 · Post by **Nelson2122** » Jan 27th, '23, 16:03

Thanks everyone for the replies. Keep them coming. Got all the bits of rug off the inside today. Still have some time before I decide. I’ll definitely be overnighting in this boat, how does that affect my choices for interiors? I want something easy to clean, durable, maintenance free, and DIY, what’s fits the bill?

Thanks again all

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Jan 27th, '23, 23:37

Nelson

Easy to maintain. We all start out that way, but everything in a boat becomes a chore to maintain after a while.

But for wipe clean, Then you are looking at some type of glass of polymere skin glued to the hull. Bucket of water some soap and you are all set. I material that is easy to clean also has some ease of maintance but probably depending on what you choose could get iffy if you start getting mold.

Good Luck in your decision making process. It will not be an easy one.

pschauss · Post by **pschauss** » Jan 28th, '23, 18:59

One of my neighbors at the marina suggested putting removable cushions along the sides of the hull in the V-berth. My upholstery guy took some measurements last summer and is working on them. He plans to use Velcro strips to keep the cushions in place. I will let you know how the idea worked out when he finishes them.

Nelson2122 · Post by **Nelson2122** » Jan 29th, '23, 08:45

Peter,
What did you use on the hull? Gelcoat? Paint?

Is there a type of fiberglass panel that’s commonly used for this application or are they usually purpose made? I think I’ve seen a textured panel on the inside of RVs and such that might work.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Jan 29th, '23, 09:25

I pulled the rug in mine out last year. If it was not for my better half highly suggesting No Rug, that is what I would have put back in. Something indoor/outdoor with a tight weave. Rug covers a multiple of the sins and imperfections easily. Rug is also sound absorbing.
But as pointed out to me rug is never truly cleaned and as I like to keep the hatch open it would see saltwater not a good combination to have wet rug in the cabin on hot humid days as “stuff” can grow.

Upholstery is out of my league. Maybe if it were flat, straight panels I’d give it a go… but not in that area.

Fair n paint…sounds ez till you get into those snug areas sand see all the highs n lows then realize my paint skills are marginal at best on straight flat panels propped up at a perfect height.

I had thought about thin luan to skin the hull then lay White board over. But opted Not to reintroduce wood and the thick plastic whiteboard needed something behind or sectioned.

What I wound up finding in Home Depot is Plas-Tech polywhite sheet. 1/16 X 48 x 96” that is a lightly textured white panel, easy to clean and follows the contours of the hull well. Right now I just have it cut and tucked into place as I need to fill some gaps under before adhering in place.

kross1 · Post by **kross1** » Jan 29th, '23, 14:00

I also removed my rug and didn't know what to do so I painted. But one thing you might want to consider is putting shelves. I gained a lot of storage and it did not interfere with sleeping. They were a little tricky to get in because my forward bulkhead was still in and I had to go in through the door of the rope locker and then back out on an angle. So now might be a good time to figure it out if you want shelves. They were about a foot wide towards the bow and almost 2 feet wide towards the stern.Sorry don't have better pictures.

neil · Post by **neil** » Jan 29th, '23, 19:23

Very nice job on the v berth and as for chain the chapmans book says six feet of chain per ten ft of boat length

Nelson2122 · Post by **Nelson2122** » Jan 30th, '23, 10:03

Carl,

Im interested in that Plastech product. Do you have any pictures of the installation process?

Kross1,
I like the shelf idea too. What did you find was the best way to attach the shelving? glass in a strip of wood to screw to?

Ill try to take some progress pics this afternoon and get them up. Thanks again all

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Jan 30th, '23, 10:52

Installation as of now is temporary. I made a cardboard template for cutting out the panel. Razor blade made quick work of it. I left the top and bottom sides long, the top edge fits between hull and headliner and the bottom is tucked under the cushions. So far it has stayed put.

My plan is - in the off-season, to remove all the stuff in the cabin and then give the hull sides a light grind. Where my hull is molded for the chine I believe I am going to fill the void with a dense expanding foam and then cut back flush to support the panel. The install instructions say liquid nails works well...I am thinking of trying that route. The panels also have trim made for it, butt and corner joints...I was originally thinking of wood trim molding, but the trim they have may be a good starting place.

What is nice is it is soap n water-friendly, easy to clean, and looks clean. The texture hides the funky curves, the material is thin and flexible making it somewhat easy to finagle in place, and conforms nicely to the shapes. I am fairly sure I will be able to do this install as a one-piece panel so no worries about trying to get seem or seems right while keeping the appearance aesthetically pleasing.

FYI- this is in a 31, so same thing, just different.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/PLAS-TEX-1- ... /311314398

Yannis · Post by **Yannis** » Jan 30th, '23, 12:57

Carl,

This is an insult.
The 31 is “no same” thing as the 28.
The 31 is far simpler, as the 28 has the flare that introduces yet another variable.
Ho hoho!

By the way, that same flare keeps you so dry, that you can cruise in your three piece suit in Bertram weather, to that official dinner,..... lol !

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Jan 30th, '23, 14:21

LOL Yannis !

Not another Bertram owner in a 3 piece suit...
The only suit I plan to wear on the boat is a bathing suit....sometimes I need one too...and a face mask n snorkel.

Anyway,
I stand by them being the same, just different.

The 28 has more flare up top while my 31 has a funky maneuver by the chine. Both don't like panels covering them up. But this stuff kinda seems to conform "some". I'll know more when I get it in tighter.
I had tried panels that were semi-rigid, aside from a royal pain getting into that v-berth space they would need to be segmented to fit.

kross1 · Post by **kross1** » Jan 30th, '23, 15:29

Nelson
If you can see in the picture, I put brackets on the bulkheads. The angle of the hull is what holds up the shelf. It just kind of worked out that way. On the face of the shelf I used inch and a half by three-quarter inch oak which gave the plywood some rigidity.
If I go to the boat this week I will take better pitures

neil · Post by **neil** » Jan 30th, '23, 19:15

I really like the shelf idea,and the weight of all that anchor chain in the bow should help the hyena from dragging her ass.keep up the good work

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Jan 30th, '23, 22:29

Carl

What is the reasoning for going to the Chine? That area is all hidden by the bunks. I wonder if you could reverse that panel, then fair it with Epoxy and then paint or do what ever you want to it.

Yannis · Post by **Yannis** » Jan 30th, '23, 23:17

Nelson,

Go to topic: Interior sides' covering material

If you need more pics just ask.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Jan 31st, '23, 07:54

Tony Meola wrote: ↑Jan 30th, '23, 22:29 Carl

What is the reasoning for going to the Chine? That area is all hidden by the bunks. I wonder if you could reverse that panel, then fair it with Epoxy and then paint or do what ever you want to it.

Tony, I'm going from memory and I just don't have one anymore...

I think you are correct in that the chine is at or around the area of the cushions, but to look finished, to be finished, the panel really needs to go all the way down to the bottom with full support. No support means it will not be long before I toss some stuff into that area ruining it.
The boat had wood pieces in several spots that gave the rug support, I'd rather not use wood. The stuff I foamed my tank in with was ultra sticky and tough, yet could be cut with a knife, ground and sanded. I think I can fill that void with a two-part high-density foam, then cut back. I would not use epoxy in fear of creating hard spots...then again they do have some light-weight filler. Its still up for grabs till Spring comes around.

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Jan 31st, '23, 22:10

Carl

I am sitting here thinking, I don't remember seeing the chine through the rug, I have the cushions out for the winter and I think mine is smooth, no chine, I believe you have to look into the anchor locker to see the chine.

There is something different about your layout compared to a Fly bridge. I have been on the model you have so I am a bit at a loss for what could be different.

Yannis · Post by **Yannis** » Feb 1st, '23, 00:32

Tony,

I was under the impression that the 31 hull is the exact same in all models.
It is the superstructure that varies.
So, if one sees the chine, everybody sees the chine !

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Feb 1st, '23, 09:42

The 31's all have the same hulls, just different strake layouts, and thicknesses.

If your rug is in place, you will not see the contours I am talking about, I believe it is the chine. When I pulled up the rug, this area had thin wood strips "adhered" over the pockets giving structure and backing support to the rug. The wood wasn't in great shape so I pulled what was left out.

Yannis · Post by **Yannis** » Feb 1st, '23, 11:05

Aren't the strakes part of the mold? if yes, how can they have different layouts and thiknesses?

Nelson2122 · Post by **Nelson2122** » Feb 1st, '23, 13:48

Good thing I have time before I need to make the decision for lining.

Started prepping for anchor roller and new anchor. I havent found too many detailed pictures of anchor rollers on the 28, so if you know where they are please point me in the right direction.

So far my research has led me to the 22 lb Delta. Insights?

Cut out the old tabbing from hull to deck out and there was a void behind tabbing which caused the rub rail backing to rot out.

re-tabbed and got 1 sheet in to start patching hole

Yannis · Post by **Yannis** » Feb 2nd, '23, 00:37

Nelson, I sent you some emails with pics, did you get them?

Nelson2122 · Post by **Nelson2122** » Feb 2nd, '23, 06:40

Yannis,

Going over them now. Thank you!

neil · Post by **neil** » Feb 2nd, '23, 19:56

I just ripped out the carpet in the v berth of our 62 ,25 ft moppie the weave of the glass is much smoother so now I know why you want to cover it, I just painted a relatively smooth wall

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Feb 3rd, '23, 22:53

Yannis wrote: ↑Feb 1st, '23, 11:05 Aren't the strakes part of the mold? if yes, how can they have different layouts and thiknesses?

Yannis

At some point, they changed the strake design to include less strakes from the earlier models.

Yannis · Post by **Yannis** » Feb 3rd, '23, 23:11

Nelson,

I noticed in the pics that while you were glassing the top forward hole, you also glassed the rim between the hull and the deck, at the bow. Is that so?
I did the same thing (you can see it in the pics I sent you), and it is a wise thing to do for stability but also for water intrusion, especially if you ever find yourself in a situation where you dig the bow into bluewater...

Tony,

Thanks, I had no idea that they changed the mold sometime in the process...

Nelson2122 · Post by **Nelson2122** » Feb 4th, '23, 08:36

Yes Yannis, I tabbed the deck to the hull. Next is working on all those holes and rotted coring.

Snipe · Post by **Snipe** » Feb 5th, '23, 10:56

I glassed mine together from stem to stern both port and starboard sides first I filled all gaps with thickened epoxy or west system six ten then two layers of 7018. It made a huge difference no leaks.I am sure added strength to the seam.

Nelson2122 · Post by **Nelson2122** » Feb 5th, '23, 14:52

Previous install of anchor roller and windlass caused some deck core rot.

cut out and cleaned up.

Yannis · Post by **Yannis** » Feb 5th, '23, 23:40

There is balsa core in the 28 foredeck?
I’m learning new things everyday...
Actually I’m pretty sure mine doesn't have a balsa core, at least not all of it.

kross1 · Post by **kross1** » Feb 11th, '23, 10:12

A couple of shelf pictures. I guess I should have moved the rags and cardboard but it gives a little something to compare to.
I found some indoor outdoor carpet on amazon I think I'm going to use in the spring.

Yannis · Post by **Yannis** » Feb 11th, '23, 21:57

Carpet is warm
Carpet gets dirty
Why not something like a smooth surface to rinse if need be?

kross1 · Post by **kross1** » Feb 12th, '23, 11:33

Hi all
I’m just looking to put the carpet like it was on the hull. Not so much for warmth, but more for sound. The water makes a hell of a lot of noise.

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Feb 12th, '23, 22:01

We hear you, but do you think it will be that much quieter? The only issue with Carpet is keeping it clean and mold.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Feb 13th, '23, 09:00

Raw fiberglass to carpet is a big sound difference.

The carpet insulates sound from the outside but also from the inside the carpet absorbs noise...think about going into one of those restaurants you have been going to for years that remodels to modern tile floors, no draperies for that stark, clean, open, and to me very loud offputting atmosphere.

Or in a home go from carpet to hardwood floors before the area rugs...

Yannis · Post by **Yannis** » Feb 13th, '23, 10:31

Carl,

There is no point in discussing noise absorption in the v berth when the boat is in motion, as everything is overwhelmed by the noise of the motors.
So, really, we're only discussing the flap-flap noise of the sea as it is pushed against the hull while at rest, or on anchor.
I had, as most of us had at one point, the rug on the sides. I doubt that it made any significant difference in noise reduction or absorption from the outside waves or wake.
And it is because it is such a pain to keep clean and dry, that I tend to think that a thin foam cushion covered in washable/rinse-able material will always be better than a carpet.
Now, as someone has already said, if this cushion is also velcro/removable so as to easily remove and clean (as well as clean the hull), it sounds as the best solution for those who are sensitive in the wave noise. Plus it is more comfortable to lean against, plus it is far easier to replace because you've had enough with that color if and when time comes.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Feb 13th, '23, 14:38

Yannis...the board is so slow with posts n news I'm giving opinions on rug. During other times I'd let the conversation dwindle...

That said...I have one hand that likes the rug as it is quick n easy to install while looking very good and somewhat inexpensive...till it gets wet, damp n dirty.

The other hand says, pull the carpet and leave it out as it gets wet n dirty.

The other, other hand, says carpet does keep the noise level down a bit.

The other other other hand says adding soft stuff, fabric will also deaden the sound some and looks better.

So what am I at now, 5 hands??

With all I said, my 5th hand pulled my carpet with no intention to replace it with new carpet. Thin plastic panels and cushions are about it for now. Someday if I ever learn to upholster I may give that a shot as I think it adds a nice warmth and comfort.

Yannis · Post by **Yannis** » Feb 13th, '23, 14:53

Carl, I agree on the rhythm of the site, so, instead of further writing about rugs I'm instantly pouring a nice rose', lay back and enjoy.
Cheers!

Rawleigh · Post by **Rawleigh** » Feb 13th, '23, 16:02

How about a padded vinyl instead of carpet. Kind of like headliner material but without the holes? It may be the best of both. And you don't have the horrendous fairing job!

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Feb 13th, '23, 21:29

Carl

Sail Rite. They have everything you need including videos on how to build the covered padding you need for the hull sides. Actually, that one is an easy one, foam, stiff backing, covering and a staple gun. No sewing needed. Like Yannis side, velcro glued to the hull and stick it up.

Yannis · Post by **Yannis** » Feb 13th, '23, 22:07

Tony,

The 28 has two, more pronounced curves to accommodate. Stiff backing is very tricky. I believe the 31 is simpler in that respect.
You will need three separate hard backed "pieces" per side in the 28. Hence the velcro cushion...

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Feb 14th, '23, 10:52

Yannis wrote: ↑Feb 13th, '23, 14:53 Carl, I agree on the rhythm of the site, so, instead of further writing about rugs I'm instantly pouring a nice rose', lay back and enjoy.
Cheers!

Yannis- one small issue, I'm at work and that does not mix with adult beverages.

Rawleigh / Tony-- yes fabric or padded vinyl would be my first choice. That is what I meant by upholstery, it looks great, is warm, and inviting, can be easy to clean, offers sound insulation, and sound deadening. That said it looks simple from the video's. Sitting in the boat thinking about it, its not so simple.
Well it might be for someone who knows how to do it. At this point I'll get the v-berth better and work on my upholstery skills on an easier project like the headliner in the cabin.