Lockout/Tagout

Harry Babb · Post by **Harry Babb** » Jul 6th, '11, 20:58

I would like to hear the opinion of others here who have had to deal with OSHA and Lockout/Tagout.......

Today I met with Safe State of Alabama to review my Safety program and in particular the Lockout program.

Here is the situation, we wrote a proceedure describing the proper way to lockout machinery for repair. The standard allows similiar machines to be grouped together under a single procedure.

I put ALL of our conventional lathes under a procedure that I called "Single Energy Source". When these machines are in place they are powered by a single electrical supply to a disconnect on the wall.

So, this gal ask me, "Does any of these machines use Hydraulic oil" and I answered yes.

Some of our lathes have a hydraulic pump powered by the main electric motor, and the function of the pump is to engage the spindle clutches and to activate the spindle brake. When the power is disconnected the main motor does not run and hence no hydraulic pressure hence no danger because there is not any stored energy.....no power and she is dead as a hammer.

She says that because of the hydraulic pump these machines have mulitple energy sources.........in terms of Lockout, I say NO! ! !

But on the other hand some of our mills or even a lathe with a bar feeder have an electrical connection to a disconnect as well as an air supply that are connected to the machine........this is what I call "Mulitple Energy Sources"

Has anyone else had to deal with this situation??? from what I can tell so far the OSHA standard is subject to interputation.

I understand that the fine for a willfully incorrect Lockout program is $70K.

Whatcha think??

hb

randall · Post by **randall** » Jul 6th, '11, 21:29

i think hand tools in an old shed are the way to go. seriously....common sense.....i guess that dosen't count.

Sean B · Post by **Sean B** » Jul 7th, '11, 00:16

find yourself an Alabama registered professional engineer, preferably a mechanical type one.... and hire him to come have a look, and then write you a certified letter that you comply. Presuming that you do, bye bye OSHA headache.

mike ohlstein · Post by **mike ohlstein** » Jul 7th, '11, 00:50

I've been right there Harry, and your position is correct......obviously. Follow Sean's advice, or ask for a higher-up to come visit your shop. The woman who visited you was an idiot.

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Jul 7th, '11, 05:31

I had to hire a professional engineer like Sean said as the OSHA rep who paid a visit to me did not understand the machinery.

If you don't understand or know the machinery and how it operates, you can't understand a what a proper lockout is.

These OSHA types are low level bureaucrats who's world is busting the asses of small business during the day and going home and beating the dog at night.

Charlie J · Post by **Charlie J** » Jul 7th, '11, 05:52

i agree with bruce
i use lock out tag out all the time, weather on the pole or in switch gear,
we have one rule who ever locks it out, takes the tag off after job is completed.

Harry Babb · Post by **Harry Babb** » Jul 7th, '11, 07:28

Sean wrote:find yourself an Alabama registered professional engineer, preferably a mechanical type one.... and hire him to come have a look, and then write you a certified letter that you comply.

Good advice Sean.

And thank you guys for the replys.

Lockout shouldn't be and is not all that hard to understand......just isolate the energy "SOURCE/SOURCES" and like Charlie said.....if you locked it.....you should unlock it........seems pretty simple to me.

The more complicated and longer the proceedure the more chances there are of an error resulting in an accident.

I argued with the Safe State Lady until I was blue in the face but it was obvious that she (and OSHA) carries a bigger stick and has (or had) the ultimate authority.......I like the engineer advice

hb

Dug · Post by **Dug** » Jul 7th, '11, 07:46

I think her perception is that hydraulics have the capability depending on design to store energy. Like a fly wheel, a spring, etc.

I would wager that is the fear or caution.

Again, I agree on the engineer. Or the manufacturer of the equipment itself.

Dug

Rawleigh · Post by **Rawleigh** » Jul 7th, '11, 08:33

You can't fix stupid!!

In Memory of Vicroy · Post by **In Memory of Vicroy** » Jul 7th, '11, 09:20

Only work at night, no OSHA.

UV, the always helpful.....

Dug · Post by **Dug** » Jul 7th, '11, 15:55

Once again, UV sticks with the KISS theory...

That is what my neighbor the Heat treat house does. They only seem to quench and belch the blue/white oil smoke on cloudy days or after dark. I don't know how they do it timing wise, but I am serious. That is what they do.

Seems to evade the environmental folks that way too...

Dug

Rocket · Post by **Rocket** » Jul 7th, '11, 23:12

I have had this same problem with hydraulic machinery. We devised a process to "test" if any residual hydraulic power had been released (cycled a valve in two direction to equalize pressure) This absolute BS step satisfied their concerns. I kept my mouth shut about our big rare earth magnet that can pick up a few tonnes of steel at one time. How do you lock out a magnet? Impossible, but they did not ask about that...process trumps pragmatism, let's assume no one has a brain.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jul 8th, '11, 06:58

as the man in charge that was one of my responsibilities . i purchase the complete kit from electrical supply house and it came with lock out for switch gear as well as c/b panels . bright yellow steel box with osha/comply sticker . the man working on the gear down line locks and unlocks and then put photo ID.with wire tie on lock . the key is kept by him the matching key is in the locked yellow box only i have that key. this was the only approved method working at brookhaven lab and other federal /state projects.i was inspected every month or so at the lab.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jul 8th, '11, 22:33

harry the bright yellow expensive box was a 30cal machine gun bullet steel case painted bright yellow with a hasp welded to the outside. go to a army/navy surplus store and save big bucks. this comply with osha rules.

Rawleigh · Post by **Rawleigh** » Jul 11th, '11, 09:00

Will the lockout tags with multiple padlock holes not comply??

Charlie J · Post by **Charlie J** » Jul 11th, '11, 09:12

they will rawleigh

Harry Babb · Post by **Harry Babb** » Jul 11th, '11, 12:14

Rawleigh wrote:Will the lockout tags with multiple padlock holes not comply??

Just like Charlie said....they will comply. We have several of them on our Lockout Board.

We also have Plastic "Boxes" in which you can put the end of an air hose or a wall plug from "Corded" machines. The box has the capability of being "Locked Out"

hb

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