For you machine shop owners

tunawish · Post by **tunawish** » Mar 10th, '11, 19:20

I know a lot of you guys have shops and have difficulty getting good help..
This is what my cousin Carl did at his shop a few years ago .. the local news did a piece on it last night..I thought it was pretty creative..

He actually put a school in the company and the state helps fund it.. Plus he gets his pick of the best students as future employees..

http://www.thebostonchannel.com/video/2 ... ml?taf=bos

Ray

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Mar 10th, '11, 19:41

The problem is that most people getting out of High School have no idea of what they want to do...so...with the encouragement of their parents, go to college...with no idea of what they want to do. Four years of liberal education later, they are encouraged to go into teaching other people who don't know what they want to do. I was lucky, I knew I was good at art and discovered that people would pay money for what I would have done for them for free...bingo...a career. Mechanically inclined? Encourage that person into a career using that gift! You usually know what you "like" or are good at by that time in your life. No one tells you how to turn your "like" into a moneymaking career. That's the shortfall of today's liberal art educators. Career training is what America needs, not another post-graduate course.

jspiezio · Post by **jspiezio** » Mar 10th, '11, 19:44

Brilliant

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » Mar 10th, '11, 19:48

Unemployment may be high, but there are millions of jobs out there. The problem? There aren't enough skilled workers to fill them.

Now there lays the truth of the decade...

All tech and no skill. This generation and the last think they want a nice cushy air conditioned office and a suitcase full of dough every Friday. Today's kids aren't willing to dirty their hands or mop some sweat from their brow.

All the good on your cousin, Ray!

I've got a nephew and niece in living in the Boston area; one is a business tycon and one a teaching artist... Neither afraid to get down, dirty, and physcal.

scenarioL113 · Post by **scenarioL113** » Mar 10th, '11, 20:20

Theres millions of kids graduating from the philosophy of "everyones a winner" and no 1st place finishers we all get medals.....etc etc etc....

Then they get out into the REAL world and realize they have to work hard and put forth real effort and are basically TOTALLY UNPREPARED in the real world.

Sorry I had to vent.

We got young kids coming on the FDNY that NEVER had a job before and cant even swing a hammer! Its a disgrace!

jspiezio · Post by **jspiezio** » Mar 10th, '11, 20:55

scenarioL113 wrote:Theres millions of kids graduating from the philosophy of "everyones a winner" and no 1st place finishers we all get medals.....etc etc etc....

Then they get out into the REAL world and realize they have to work hard and put forth real effort and are basically TOTALLY UNPREPARED in the real world.

Sorry I had to vent.

We got young kids coming on the FDNY that NEVER had a job before and cant even swing a hammer! Its a disgrace!

Speaking of disgraces, what is this I hear there is no longer a department Saint Patrick's Day party? What the heck?

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Mar 10th, '11, 21:29

Then they get out into the REAL world and realize they have to work hard and put forth real effort and are basically TOTALLY UNPREPARED in the real world.

When is someone going to teach them that on a job interview, and in the real world, contrary to popular belief, all men are NOT created equal. It's the unequal one that gets the job.

randall · Post by **randall** » Mar 10th, '11, 21:47

i just read an interesting book(true story) about a philosophy major,PHD, who wound up working in a DC think tank. one day he realizes he is unhappy, unfulfilled,and is adding nothing to the world .....so he does what he always really wanted to do.....he becomes a classic motorcycle mechanic.

when you need a plumber or an electrician or a carpenter that job CANNOT be outsourced to india or china. the years i worked as a carpenter and a roofer laid the foundation for my entire career....theres plenty of work for people that can actually do things.

randall · Post by **randall** » Mar 10th, '11, 21:50

We got young kids coming on the FDNY that NEVER had a job before and cant even swing a hammer! Its a disgrace![/quote]

hammers are just for show now......nails get shot not driven.

tunawish · Post by **tunawish** » Mar 10th, '11, 22:10

when you need a plumber or an electrician or a carpenter that job CANNOT be outsourced to india or china. the years i worked as a carpenter and a roofer laid the foundation for my entire career....theres plenty of work for people that can actually do things.

Randall, That's true but even that is in jeopardy by the contractors who pick up their work force every morning at 6am in the parking lot of Home Depot.. These guys are ruining that for the trades also with cheap uninsured labor, no comp, no mandatory health(in Ma). Makes us legitimate companies want to close the doors.. Hell I'm so stupid I even put in a completely company funded profit sharing plan 12 years ago..when there was such a thing as profit..

Can't wait for the guy on the beach to put up his hot dog cart for sale.. I'll be all over that...
Ray

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Mar 10th, '11, 22:17

When I was growing up in the Bronx, there were two kinds of High Schools. One was held in higher regard (Academic), the other was "Commercial". Our Commercial High School was called Samuel Gompers High School where they taught Auto Mechanics, Printing Industry, Machine Shop, etc. I don't think places like that even exist now, do they?

tunawish · Post by **tunawish** » Mar 10th, '11, 22:33

Walter,

We are fortunate enough that we still have a few technical high schools in the area.. We have pulled quite a few kids from one in particular but none that really have the passion for the business. They all want to own their own company in 2 years.. Even had to train a few to properly read a tape measure between the 1/4" hashes..
We used to get "it's 30 1/4 and 3 little lines".. still can't believe I heard it that day.. and that from a senior who had just graduated..I guess the house they had just built for the senior project was +/- 1/4" everywhere...

Ray

Harry Babb · Post by **Harry Babb** » Mar 10th, '11, 22:46

YeeeHawwww! ! ! ! I like it a lot......my kind of guy. I have wondered about doing something like the training but quite frankly never knew where to start.

I would have chimed in earlier but couldn't cause I wus still at work.

Like Walter, I am one of those guys that found that I can make a living doing what I love to do.

I flunked out of college and when I came home my dad insisted that I go get a job at the "MILL" (Scott Paper Co). He and I locked horns. I refused to go to the "Mill"......all my dad ever did was complain about his job....not for me.

My uncles wanted me to get a Civil Service job......nope....not for me either.

The first job I had after leaving college was to "Work on Boats" and that is where I first set foot on a 31 Bertram.....and you guys know the rest of the story bout the Bertram.

I really like the "School" thing....just wish I could figure out how to do it WITHOUT the Government help.

Thanks for sharing......hit a nerve with me and got my blood pumping agian...

hb

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Mar 10th, '11, 22:55

"Fire in the belly" for anything doesn't come from schools. It's in the person. In the game of succeeding, If you have it, you will exceed. If you don't, you'll recede...and not even know why. Some of the people I knew in my business I am sure would have succeeded in ANY business they ever went into...it was just IN them. You can't teach that, and no one seems to understand the basic concept of nature...survival of the fittest. This MAY be the result of having your ass wiped for you from the day you were born.

tunawish · Post by **tunawish** » Mar 10th, '11, 23:17

walterk wrote:"This MAY be the result of having your ass wiped for you from the day you were born.

Walter Ya think..!!! Couldn't agree more...

Harry, I know he went through hell and high water with the Politicians in the state and I think the Feds too.. but he did It.... you gotta see the classroom they even have CNC simulators for the machines..

My Godfather, Carls father, started the business 40 + years ago.... Real old school Italian and does everything the old way.... I remember when I worked there summers while in college and an 18 month stint when I graduated he was still brazing tools in the welding room when he had tens of thousands of dollars in insert tooling he refused to use....
He's pretty much retired now and one of the best machinist you'll ever see.. He actually teaches one of the classes...
"you taka the tool an you putta inna the machina here.... Look at me you stupida when imma talkin to you"......

Got to be funny stuff but I bet they listen to him..and learn..

Charlie J · Post by **Charlie J** » Mar 11th, '11, 07:00

walter
i belive the high schools still run courses at boces for technical skills.
my first job was working on a farm at the end of the island at $1.90 per hr that went mostly toward gas money for the boat, didnt want to go to college but was pressured into it by mom and dad, met with the consulor and they recommend i go into the electrical field, i said no thanks ill stick with surveying, well after half a year they gave me 2 choises leave or we throw your ass out, well after 30 years this june ive been in the electrical field go figure. todays kids want to sit in front of computers and not get there hands dirty. i came into the job not knowing anything about it, but was willing to learn, started on the bottom and worked my way up. its been very satisfiing career, helping people get the lights back on after a storm. and restoration work, hurricanes, ice storms, nor easters, heat wave, you name it ive worked it

MarkD · Post by **MarkD** » Mar 11th, '11, 09:17

Guys:

Bill Gates once gave a speech at a high school and he told them these 11 points. I think it covers a lot of the topics on this thread in a nutshell:

Rule 1: Life is not fair-get used to it.

Rule 2: The world wonâ€™t care about your self-esteem. The world will expect you to accomplish something BEFORE you feel good about yourself.

Rule3: You will NOT make $60,000 a year right out of high school. You wonâ€™t be a vice-president with a car phone until you earn both.

Rule 4: If you think your teacher is tough, wait till you get a boss.

Rule 5: Flipping burgers is not beneath your dignity. Your grandparents had a different word for burger flipping- they called it opportunity.

Rule 6: If you mess up, itâ€™s not your parentsâ€™ fault, so donâ€™t whine about your mistakes, learn from them.

Rule 7: Before you were born, your parents werenâ€™t as boring as they are now. They got that way from paying your bills, cleaning your clothes and listening to you talk about how cool you are. So before you save the rain forest from the parasites of your parentsâ€™ generation, try delousing the closet in your own room.

Rule 8: Your school may have done away with winners and losers, but life has not. In some schools they have abolished failing grades and theyâ€™ll give you as many times as you want to get the right answer. This doesnâ€™t bear the slightest resemblance to ANYTHING in real life.

Rule 9: Life is not divided into semesters. You donâ€™t get summers off and very few employers are interested in helping you find yourself. Do that on your own time.

Rule 10: Television is NOT real life. In real life people actually have to leave the coffee shop and go to jobs.

Rule 11: Be nice to nerds. Chances are youâ€™ll end up working for one.

randall · Post by **randall** » Mar 11th, '11, 09:41

i agree with walter....its called "work"...thats why they have to pay you. while the country demeans skilled labor anyone with the aptitude can throw that back in the countries face no problem. when i was a carpenter one of the guys i worked with for years was an "auto shop" guy in high school. then right into the navy and nam. he is one of the brightest ,best read, well educated, capable guys i ever met .

you either have the fire or you dont....has nothing to do with where you come from. success is judged in more than one way. the only real wealth is your health, how you spend your time, and who you spend it with.

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Mar 11th, '11, 09:54

The points above did not come from Gates. A check of snopes will confirm that.

Those points, if they were ever given as such would not come from a liberal like Gates. Those are more of a conservative point of view.

MarkD · Post by **MarkD** » Mar 11th, '11, 10:02

Ha.. Good points Bruce. Somebody sent that to me but I never checked it any further.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Mar 11th, '11, 10:02

Walter a good friend of mine out in moriches has both his sons in the boces marine tech program. They do everything from rebuilding engines to structural, fiberglass and electrical and plumbing systems.

Each year or two they rebuild an older boat from the ground up. I believe they have many other trade programs as well.

randall · Post by **randall** » Mar 11th, '11, 10:30

Bruce wrote:The points above did not come from Gates. A check of snopes will confirm that.

Those points, if they were ever given as such would not come from a liberal like Gates. Those are more of a conservative point of view.

success is apolitical. if you don't think there are some amazingly successful self made very liberal folks i could introduce you to a few....oh, thats right ,i already did.....from dallas no less. my clients run the gamut from the hard hard right to the absolutely loony left. they ALL are living the American dream.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Mar 11th, '11, 10:56

I appreciate the piece Tunawish...gives me some hope that if I get bigger one day I may be able to do something along those lines. At the very least...somebody is interested in learning the Trade

Sadly, I tried to do an informal "teaching bit" after hours last year. A complete Lack-Luster response...maybe I needed to pay more then straight time to teach them...

I have one guy today that has potential and wants to learn...but he's too smart! He knows it will take years for him to gain the skills he needs to become a Well Paid Machinist... His father has a City Job and is getting him in...he starts at almost twice what he gets paid here, with a full benefit package...Medical, 3 weeks off, holidays and Pension after 20 years. After his 1st year he get a major increase. As he says the down side, the job is boring. I told to jump on the job as I'm often sorry I didn't go that route...I'd be out by now. Then I could do something I enjoy doing for the balance of my days...while still getting my pension.

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Mar 11th, '11, 15:59

Never said liberals aren't sucessful.
Kalifornia and NYC is plum full of them.

Hell Sean Penn and Charlie Sheen are off to Haiti I hear.

Was addressing the comments as it related to one Bill Gates.

randall · Post by **randall** » Mar 11th, '11, 16:16

yeah...hes pretty successful too. point is it dosent matter who said them because they are correct and could be said by anyone of any political persuasion. you cant believe anything you hear on a forum on the internet or comes by email if its not the personal experience of the poster.......and even then..........

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Mar 12th, '11, 08:10

I agree those rules sum it all up in a nutshell. Doesn't matter who said it.

The flip side to those rules...the only people who understand those rules are the people who "get it". For the rest, I believe it is in one ear and out the other till LIFE SMACKS them in the face.

Had a kid work for me some years back..taught him to weld...he had talent...but came into work when he got around to it. Late absent...we sent him home, had talks. We could not get him out of that habit.

Long story short, he knocked up his girl, his parents had enough and tossed him out of the house..then he came here for help. By then we already had someone in his position and could only offer Part time and told him straight out we could not recommend him to fellow shops....pointed him to the military.

A year later he came back to thank my dad and apologize for... well whatever. He straighten up his act, got married, seemed to be a good dad and when I asked him if he was still late and had no shows...his answer was...tried it once and they locked him up. That was what Clicked...boom the Smack in the Face he got it and understood.

Dug · Post by **Dug** » Mar 12th, '11, 10:43

Here in Worcester we have a fantastic technical high school.

http://www.techhigh.us/

It really is a heck of a place.

The rest has already been said. I am on the advisory board for the machine tool program and it is growing.

Thats about all I can say...

Dug

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Mar 12th, '11, 10:59

Our parents and grandparents were of the "hard times" generations who lived through The Depression and WWII. They understood that there was a direct relationship between performance and survival. Seems like the "good years" have diminished that concept to many. If our recent hard times get prolonged, they may have to learn it all over again.

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » Mar 12th, '11, 11:37

But can you teach a young dog old tricks?

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Mar 13th, '11, 08:51

CaptPatrick wrote:But can you teach a young dog old tricks?

Yes...but they have to want it.

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