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I'm having to make a decision on buying two new turbos for my 4LHA-STP Yanmar 240's.

So far, I have three options:

1. From the Yanmar dealership, at roughly €2.5K each.

2. From a local Turbo shop that imports them from Europe somewhere, claiming that they are the original Japanese manufactured ones, at €1.7K each.
They offer a one year guarantee under conditions, however the way it was explained to me over the phone I understood that when and if something goes wrong with them, they will be ready to condemn the motor itself that it didn't function properly, that the tubes didn't send the right amount of oil so they baked, and a series of other culprits to avoid paying or replacing. In other words, a one year guarantee with a lot of assumptions.

3. From e-bay, from various sellers, all ranging between €800-900 each, that are most probably Chinese manufactured under manufacturer's specs. These sellers have a close to 100% satisfaction ratings from hundreds of sales, whatever this means. They give one month's money back guarantee, but it is very difficult for me to receive, mount them and test them in the water as the boat is on the hard. By the time I launch and test that guarantee will be void.

Can any gentleman on this site give me an indication on what I should further investigate, or, better yet, assist me in making the best choice from the above alternatives?

Than you.

I bought mine from www.turboturbos.com

They were recommended on this site.

Is this the same local Turbo shop that condemned your well-performing old Turbo's? If it is, I'd consider bringing your old ones for a 2nd opinion. If not, perhaps you got the wrong sales representative on the phone, woke up on the wrong side of the bed, had a fight with the Mrs...stuck in traffic or their coffee was cold. Something sounds a bit off with that kind of sales pitch.

Yanmar Turbo...if you do not want to 2nd guess whether you should have gone that route, glad not to have a budget left to do other work...shut your eyes and hand your card over.

EBay- I'd love to say to stay away, and I'd have reason...I was a couple of keystrokes from being scammed out of $15k for Guaranteed Running, John Deere Diesels that included delivery to me. That was some years ago, but if it's too good to be true. Anyway, I stopped, got in touch with Ebay, they checked it out right there and then, said SCAM...I spent the rest of that Saturday changing logins, and passwords, and closing up credit cards...fun day.

Anyway, since then I've had good results. A couple of years ago my daughter needed a brake actuator for her Toyota Prius, 5K from Toyota plus install and it was on backorder. Ebay- $700 plus shipping for a guaranteed money back used. worked perfect. Several months later dash lights go on, same issue on the other side, $800 for a guaranteed, money back used. I was not so lucky, it didn't work and I was ready for a fight. Contacted the seller and all they wanted to know was whether should they send out another or just credit the account and please toss the old unit away. Ebay again and bought a guaranteed, "tested" unit for a few bucks more...worked fine.
Daughter had her side-view mirror, bezel, and actuator stems stolen while at school. Honda sells just the mirror at $80 OR the whole assembly at $350 plus installation. Ebay had mirror plus all the parts for $84 including shipping from China.

I do not have an answer...aside from maybe finding a better local turbo place or speak to the other one again.

Yannis

Reach out to Turbo Turbos. They are original IHI turbos. That is what is on your engines. I believe they even have remans.

Micky, Tony,

I messaged turbo turbos and they quoted a price higher than that of Yanmar, ($2.2K) plus the extra taxes (24%)...plus shipping...

Carl,

Yes, he is the same one and I didn't like the pitch either. I will do exactly that, I will go collect the box with the turbos from the boat and head to another shop. I might be lucky in that they may reconstitute one turbo out of the two, so that I'll have to buy just one new.

I wanted to know if the OEM Chinese ones from e bay are any good; assuming the seller is OK, would you buy/trust a chinese OEM turbo as opposed to a new from japan? At almost one third of the cost that is!

I offered a long drawn-out answer for a reason...I don't know. The claim of being an actual Original Equipment Manufacture product at that cost does raise some hairs. I'd almost prefer they advertise as "Just Like OEM", or "Meets and Exceeds OEM Specifications" as I can feel ok in that seems possible even if just close.
OEM at 1/3 the price translates to me as "we knocked off their product and rebadged it as theirs. We are dishonest in our business dealings, and in our advertising. BUT with you, our Customer, you are different, we will treat you with honesty, respect, stay true to our word, and stand behind our products.

Yup...long answer as I do not know what the answer is. 8-$900 sounds very cheap, except if you are buying crap that doesn't work or hold up as it should.
I am also against buying cheap overseas knockoffs to a point. The point is that some companies show no mercy with their pricing structure. I get it design, prototype, worker standards, worker safety costs, skim the cream etc...it's my business competing with some overseas items.
But when I can buy a $299 specialty Vise from China vs a $2200 vise built here, and I need 3. I hate to say I tried a $300 vise. It did need tweaking and TLC to meet my needs, but it did. So I purchased 2 more.

Carl,

Thanks. But consider that most of what we all use everyday is made in China. From computers to luxury cars, so why not turbos?
The question is if they reached a point where most of what they produce is good quality. It will definitely be a lot cheaper for the reasons you mentioned, but that is their issue.

Yannis, I would take my original turbos to the most reputable turbo shop in the region for a diagnosis and estimate. If that's not an option and you can afford it spend the money for a pair Yanmar dealer turbos and enjoy the E3,200 peace of mind dividend over the next several years.

Yannis

When my friend replaced his last summer, I helped him search out a turbo deal. I found a lot of mixed reviews on the Chinese knock offs. Seemed the castings were not great and a lot of complaints about bolt holes not lining up.

Buy with caution.

Doug, I think I'll go the way you propose, however, I'll exhaust all other possibilities first.

Tony, I value your internet search skills, if you say you found mixed reviews it means that there are mixed reviews...

I've gone out to dinner with other couples thinking the only thing worse than the food was the service, while they raved about both. Mixed reviews are what they are.

That said it's either 2nds or knockoffs not up to par. Bolt holes and outer casting surfaces mean little to me with such substantial savings. Inner-casting precision machined surfaces and quality components are a whole other animal.

My gut says if I found a good reputable Turbo Shop I would take their suggestion. Rebuild, buy this Non-OEM, it's as good or better...OR if they say OEM is the way to go, I'd shut my eyes and hand over my wallet. There are times to save money with a little risk in losing it, major boat parts are not it for me. I find things go wrong for me at the worst possible times...bad weather, rough sea's, heavy winds, close quarters...

I hear you Carl.
Tomorrow I will visit another turbo shop.
Let’s see what they have to say...
In the mean time, the two turbos in boxes in my trunk go gling-glong at every corner!

Yannis

You could always turn them into wind chimes.

Haha too heavy Tony.

I’ll try to see if they can make one good out of the two.

Γηρασκω δ' αει τα παντα διδασκομενος. Σωκρατης, or,
just in case you don't understand,
I grow old, while always learning. Socrates...

I visited the other turbo shop this morning, after I had arranged for some sort of rendez-vous, because I didn't want to arrive there and find out that nobody can discuss with me. Over the phone, they gave me the impression of a more serious shop...

I arrived and handed over the two turbos in their carton boxes. The technician was courteous and although the one turbo was half open with scattered bits and pieces in the carton, he didn't (like the other guy did in the other shop) tell me right away that these turbos are probably useless...
He said that he would open them, measure them and call me back. I told him that even if some parts might be beyond repair, I would be interested to know if he could combine parts to deliver at least one functional turbo.

A few minutes ago I received a call from the technician, whereby he informed me the following:

The two turbos are perfectly repairable. Also, there exist plenty of original Japanese parts for them. (the previous guy insisted that it is a company policy from IHI that they no longer supply spare parts for their products, that one has to ...unfortunately purchase a new unit if something went wrong).

He will need to do the following:

2 balancing/tuning
2 overhauling kit
2 heat shield
2 wastegate service
2 exhaust intake service
2 gasket sets plus necessary metaloplastic work
plus his overall charges
Total: €1200

From the discussion I found out that he is local from one of the islands I visit in the summer and his dad's best friend in the village
was a classmate of mine in high school. After this he felt ...further obliged to deliver his best!

Isn't all this a reason to quickly open a fresh rose' and enjoy my grilled shrimps like I deserve?

I wish to thank you all for your contribution and your insight.

PS: I called my mechanic to sort of get approval from, and he said that so long as the rod in the hot side is OK, I should proceed with the repair. I called the shop and they said that the hot side is ok in both turbos.

Two fully rebuilt turbos for less coin than a pair of questionable eBay bargain turbos. Not bad for taking a ride and dealing with a little "gling-glong at every corner!"

Enjoy the grilled shrimp and fresh Rose, you earned it!

Carl,

This is to prove that dishonest people exist everywhere. And they are all the more dishonest when you are all the more impotent to check and verify what they claim.
Bastards...(I know more words but I cant on this site...)

Last Sunday I had a few people over for lunch, I grilled some lamb chops, anyway, I described my ordeal with the turbos to them as they all have or had boats, and one gent suggested this turbo shop to me, he said he had used them in the past for his 420hp Cats and was satisfied... its right where you start feeling that the whole universe works just for you, what a useful coincidence for such a piece of information.

Interesting saga with a positive ending. Thanks for putting up on the Forum for us.

Yannis

Glad to hear it worked out for you. Carl is right you got a deal. I think you need to upgrade your dinner beyond shrimp and a big toast with the best beverage you can find.

Doug, thanks.

Tony, very seldom the best drink with a meal is not wine!

Then get the best. Prefer Red, just so you know when I stop by someday.

Tony,

Gimme a call a few minutes before you arrive, so that I have the time to decant it properly!

Still being in the service business just another direction, I find that most shops anymore as a sub-contractor don't want to rebuild or repair anymore, just replace for liability's sake and also finding someone who can repair items is getting more difficult as most of our generation retires or dies off.

I've added two important machines to our shop, a lathe and a milling machine to make our own replacement parts to limit our sub contractors.

I was lucky, I had found a great shop who did my injectors and turbos and somehow was able to get factory yanmar turbo parts so he could repair them back in the day cheap. The shop closed a few years before I did. Not sure why but his cigar smoking and the fuel fumes inside his shop were choking.

Dishonest… yes could be.

Might also be the worldwide case of laziness.

It’s a lot more work to repair compared to buying new and taking a percentage of the sale. When looking through those eyes casting imperfections can look to be cracks and when your supplier says they can’t get parts you do not bother to check another supplier.

Another possible view is the shop does not have qualified help to diagnose and repair. So what was told to you becomes somewhat true in that it cannot be done…”by them”.

Whatever the case you’re better off they pushed you away as it seems you found a better shop.


Bruce, you right subbing out work is getting more and more difficult. For the most part if I cannot do in house, I pass on the job. It’s tough enough dealing with in-house issues, trying to deal with your subs…


I usually prefer a Red like Tony, but seeing we are having grilled shrimp my choice would be towards a crisp white wine. Heck, let’s do one of each and debate what goes better and finish with an ouzo.

Carl,
For crying out loud, never would you drink an ouzo after anything...
Ouzo is too strong to mix w anything else.

Γηρασκω δ' αει τα παντα διδασκομενος. Σωκρατης- Socrates…

Oh boy!

I have a guy who is from Albania and does all that needs to be done in a home, from plumbing to painting to masonry, everything indeed, and he's very good too.
After work, we sit and have a round or two, he can outdrink me in a breeze, anyway, he was telling me that the only way you will not get drunk if you mix two different drinks is when the second drink is lighter that the first one AND that you stop right there, you don't go back to the first drink after you had that lighter second.
I'll start charging for info like this from now on...LOL

Carl, I see you're improving in foreign languages!

BS apart, I still can't grasp the audacity of this first shop with all these lies and pompous pitch...
They were capable to fix them, they have technicians in house, they just preferred to snatch a few thousand more without doing any work, who wouldn't, right?

Yannis wrote: ↑Mar 25th, '24, 00:13 anyway, he was telling me that the only way you will not get drunk if you mix two different drinks is when the second drink is lighter that the first one AND that you stop right there, you don't go back to the first drink after you had that lighter second.
I'll start charging for info like this from now on...LOL

Alcohol and time, too much of the first, without enough of the other in any combination will produce drunkenness.

Yannis wrote: ↑Mar 25th, '24, 00:13 Carl, I see you're improving in foreign languages!

I had a good teacher...

Yannis wrote: ↑Mar 25th, '24, 00:13 BS apart, I still can't grasp the audacity of this first shop with all these lies and pompous pitch...
They were capable to fix them, they have technicians in house, they just preferred to snatch a few thousand more without doing any work, who wouldn't, right?

Around here, when a person is hired with zero training and intelligence, they become a Technician and/or Associate. I recently had Tires put on daughter's car, the Technician kinda missed snugging up a few lugs. I guess it happens often enough that the Tire Associate Manager, who brought out the car to us mentioned I would need to check that the lugs are tight, also handed me a pamphlet that mentioned the same.

Yannis wrote: ↑Mar 25th, '24, 00:13 "they just preferred to snatch a few thousand more without doing any work, who wouldn't, right?"

Inability to tackle the job correctly, inability to find or train "technicians" worthy of tackling the simplest tasks makes simple tasks tough.

it's easier on the mind to think of it as laziness over dishonesty, even if you are right in your original thinking.

My .02 and worth every cent.

Carl

I guess leaving the lugs loose is ok as long as you get home so you can jack up the car and check them. The other option is they tighten up so tight you can't get them off.

Either way you can't win.

By the way, handing you the pamphlet probably protects them from a lawsuit when the tires come off.

Too tight or Too loose, I guess I'd rather go too tight, but just right would be best.

Yes, I understood the reason for the talk and pamphlet very well. They even recommended coming back a week later for the Tire technician to verify something. Cover thy Arse...
I just checked they were tight the following day...a couple needed a bit more, but not quite loose. Then again I did not have their fancy torque wrench to verify. It's great they had the proper tool, not so great they either didn't know how to use it or didn't care to use it right.

Anyhoo...point is I love the titles, everyone gets a trophy.

Torque Wrench. I have never seen any of those guys use torque wrench. Air gun and crank it up.

Tony-
In truth, I didn't see them use a Torque Wrench. I think it was mentioned in a sign, the pamphlet, or the brief spiel the Tire Tech Manager gave as he handed the car back over. I got two things from the information provided...check that the nuts are tight and it's not our fault if they are not.
Even if they used a torque wrench, they must be used correctly for good results.

Torque wrench takes them too long. They have an adjustment on the air gun for pressure. I doubt that adjustment has been changed in years.

Thats why when you get a flat you can't get the dam lugs off. Eyes my father use to yell at the help " Don't squeeze the eyeballs out of them. "

LOL, haven't heard that before.

Yes I have and use both tools, I've had my share of lugs that would budge after installation with impact guns, even after jumping on the lug wrench.

What struck me was the irony of the statements. Hire a kid with little training and call him a Tire Technician, the lugs will be installed with a torque wrench, hmm maybe it was they will be properly torqued (same thing, just different), while in the same breath telling me to be sure I check that they are tight.

I have a feeling they have hit with for some bucks for a tire coming off.

That and/or the company lawyers n insurance company created a policy to try n cover their arse, should a tire find itself separated from the car after installation.

Looks like we went full circle on this topic.



Yannis- How long before we get our turbos back? Been a week…I know it’s not a rush as we are not ready to launch our boat just yet… but would be nice to be ready.

Carl,

He told me 3-4 working days, last Monday was a holiday so I should expect to hear from him anytime this coming week.
On the other hand, my son came from London because it’s Easter there, so I postponed all boat things this past week.
I liked this “we” attitude, shall I assume it holds for the paying part too?

Lmao… I was hoping you’d pickup on that. Sure the check is in the mail, let me know when you get it.

I’m wondering is there a VAT tax for fixing something that was working? Or in that case replacing something that didn’t need replacing.


Getting real, Happy Easter to you and your family.

Thank you for your wishes.

The orthodox Easter is on the fifth of May.
No, I will not pay VAT this time...

…would you believe I knew that, but wanted to be the 1st to wish you a Happy?

Whatever, it’s always pleasant when someone wishes anything really.
For example, today at your Easter, we celebrated at my x’s our son’s 25th birthday. With 10 friends. Like if it were Easter. Not bad to celebrate whatever it may be!
And I’m anxious to receive your check in the mail Carl! LOL !

Were your turbochargers acting up or was this a proactive preventative maintenance decision? I ask this as someone who 3 years ago decided to get ahead of the game when the salon was opened up for refreshing and replace my perfectly happy domestic water pump. Today after 3 defective water pumps the old one is back in place and working fine.

Happy Birthday to your son, may he have many many more.

I’m with you Yannis, take all well wishes and enjoy whatever celebrations you can. It beats getting together for times of sorrow.

Yannis

The fact that you spent the day with your ex deserves well wishes.

Just kidding.

I hope you enjoyed the day with your family. Celebrating the meaning of the day with family and friends is the best day there is.

Tony, Carl, thanks!

Doug,

Im not a mechanic and I certainly cannot tell if a turbo needs or doesn't need servicing or replacement.

I had my mechanic telling me for more than five seasons that we need to take the turbos out to check if they have any cracks or anything else, I assume mainly for two reasons; one, that they get wet from dripping seawater in the engine compartment and are rusted, especially the port side one, and two, because they have been sitting in there for 17 years, so we should give them some TLC.
I was fending off his suggestion up until this season when I said OK, he may be right, after all I also wanted to make sure that everything was functioning properly, although nothing was visibly wrong.
I do not know and I cannot assume that the turbos did not require anything inherently in terms of servicing, or it was the fact of removing them from the boat that necessitated this refurbishment as described above.
The fact of the matter is that after this mini ordeal, the turbos will be checked and have their serviceable parts replaced for many years to come, as well as the peace of mind that follows. I find the 1,5K necessary for all this to be a reasonable cost for that peace of mind after 17 years of service.
I also consider myself lucky to have been able to find the correct shop, after I almost got ripped by this other guy...

We can always discuss wether I should have taken them out, or better, left them alone, but we will never know the right answer, despite the number of beers we may consume for this reason...

Wear never gets better by itself.
If you cannot trust your mechanic...that's a problem. (Trust, but verify)

So you paid some money to turn the clock back to zero on the turbo's.

Debate all you want, it was the right option in my opinion.

One other reason that I forgot to mention, that contributed to my decision to pull the turbos, is that the previous owner(s) were using the boat WITHOUT exhaust risers, which I had to make and install.
I have seen how detrimental this can be on the turbos which are the first in line as the sea water rushes inward when the boat tips forward or when a wake splashes against the stern...I even installed new stainless exhaust flaps at the end, fabricated at an angle so they stay shut at rest.
So, there was some amount of humidity, salty humidity, that should have already given some hard time to my turbos and this additional element was decisive to act like I did.

Like new and shiny in their box!




https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/536 ... f767_b.jpg

No dealing with "a little "gling-glong at every corner!" boxed like that. It looks like someone is proud of their work...a great sign.


Nice...