Bertram 25 express, new member

[Howesounder]

Hello all, new member here from Vancouver British Columbia. I have just purchased, (sight unseen except for a couple of poor pictures) the teal green Bertram 25 express cruiser that has been for sale for some time in Holbrook NY, and was on eBay for a time. He has installed a G bracket, and had a pair of 225, 2 strokes on it. I love the flybridge model, but for my uses, the express just made more sense. Could not find a boat locally, so bought this one, and it is being pulled across the USA as I type.

I wanted a boat for cruising the Pacific Northwest that could handle the chop with some grace. Trips up the coast as far and beyond the top of Vancouver Island. I have heard that the pacific inland waterways here typically have perhaps smaller, but steeper waves, and I am curious how the 25 express might do out here.

I have found a high hours (3100) 250 hp yamaha 4 stroke, and will try that single engine for starters, with a 50 HP Honda on a 6" Bobs machine shop Jackplate for an emergency and trolling engine. I am hoping for 20 knot cruise.

So little info on these 25 express cruisers, any tips for my conversion to single outboard, and refurbish on the interior are welcome. I am hoping the boat is at least mostly as described, so if anyone knows this boat please let me know.

Cheers all Steve

[Rocket]

Welcome Steve, I am in BC as well, Ladner specifically. I have run a 25 Sportfish for years and currently have both a Sportfish and an Express slated for a rebuild sometime in the distant future. Too bad you are already committed, I would have been willing to let one of them go at a pretty reasonable number, but I am sure that yours would be in better shape than the ones that I have, and neither one of mine is set up for outboards.

The 25 is a great boat for our waters, particularly in a following sea. I have been out a few times in 30 Knots plus, one time I made the run from Pt. Atkinson to Active Pass in a 40 knot westerly that had the ferries stopped and the cruise ships in the harbour. It took about an hour, running at about 25 knots in a BIG following sea and was one of the most exhilarating boating experiences of my life. I ran that boat everywhere and must have crossed the straight of Georgia 30 times in all sea conditions. The only time it can be tough is in a steep short head sea, but if your course will allow you to quarter it, then you can make good progress. I would not hesitate to go north, up to Fitzhugh sound to Bella Coola or even Rupert. Range would be the issue if you were to try to go any further north.

Capt. Bone would be able to give you numbers on a 25 with different Outboard configurations as he has a passion for Bertram 25s with outboards and seems to keep good records.

I am curious as to how you are transporting your boat and what the cost is as I have to move a boat from the east coast in the next month or so.

If you are in the lower mainland, you are welcome to come see any of my boats anytime,

Cheers,

Rod

[Howesounder]

Hey Rod, Thanks for all that. The transport has been a bugger, and theat cost alone cost is 1.6 times what I paid for the boat. Prices I got were as high as 12k U.S. And as low as 6500 but only if it could share a truck bed. I ended up on the slightly low side of the medium, as the partial loads kept on falling through. I could not find a 25 Bertram express closer, and this one has the G bracket, and recent Awlgrip. Fellow at the yard it was stored at said it has had the epoxy barrier done on the bottom too, as well as a new pair of 55 gallon each fuel tanks and the floor finished with a hinged hatch where the engine cover was in the cockpit. Recent electronics, and new head, so this may be a decent start to the project. Have to see, as I have just rolled the dice (as stated above) by me buying sight unseen. I am downsizing boats from a slow 45 pilothouse, and want to have a particularly tough knarly boat that is happy in filthy conditions and keep a decent pace. Don't want to spend the money it takes to go real fast, but also don't want to have to slow down from 15-20 very often at all. Thanks for the invite, to see your stock of 25s and if anything is hinky on this one I can see that being a welcome invite. Had this one not be scheduled to arrive this week, I may have become a pest, as I am curious to get inside one. I have a feeling that headroom is pityful below, and I would sure like to see that once and for all. Seller said that inside was dated and needed doing. Thanks for the comments on how they handle this water. This is as good as I could hope for. I once had an east coast lobster boat and was warned that that type of boat was built for longer form waves........and would not handle this west coast chop as well. Took it up the georgia straight in fairly rough conditions and it pounded itself to a leaking mess in hours. Could not go slow enough into the waves to stop the pounding, yet down wind, it was no problem. Glad to hear I will not be repeating that.

Cheers Steve

[MarkS]

Welcome

[captbone]

Welcome and Congrats.

Happy to help with any questions. I have actually seen your boat in person when it was here in NY.

Cheers,

JR

[Howesounder]

Hello JR, and thanks for the pictures. The boat is now at the border awaiting whatever arcane prosess there. Sure appreciate the extra pictures, and those engines in the photo look like long legs. Previous owner said they were short shafts, and it seems I was correct to assume he was confused on that account. Mine should be a bit lighter in the rear with just the 250 and a kicker. I was going to use a 50 hp kicker, but I have stumbled upon a nice 25 long shaft tohatsu fuel injected 4 stroke, so a better kicker than my 50 Honda. I will put up some shots once rigged, and the interior is done. First I have to figure out how to post pictures here. Will there be a thread on that here?

I am going to bolt up this 250 yamaha, and chuck this thing in the water ASAP,to see if I get the motor height right, and see how the 21" prop does, and generally see if that 250 looks like a good fit for the boat. Then I will have the information I need for the correct prop, and if the motor height is right or not etc, and I will have that sorted for the next splash. Then a winter of fitting out the boat to my purposes. Winter work will be hydraulic steering, and auto-helm, interior gutting, and getting a head running with a tiny holding tank, as well as getting some kind of water system going.

Cheers steve

[CaptPatrick]

First I have to figure out how to post pictures here.

http://bertram31.com/newbb/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3

[captbone]

Those are XL 25inch 3.0 liter Mercurys. They are mounted a little high. Normally you would run a XXL 30 inch engine but I suspect that a 25inch single would work as well. 15.5 x 17 pitch prop is a good starting point for a 3 blade stainless if not the exact prop you need.

[Rocket]

Steve, are the existing motors toast? What is the reason for replacing them with a single used motor? If you were going brand new, it would be more clear to me. Also, unless you are really tall, I think you will be pleasantly surprised by the headroom in the 25 Express. My only complaint about them is their somewhat, um, homely appearance...

[Howesounder]

Homely!! Surley you jest sir! He he he, Well I prefer to think of the looks as......Tough, and businesslike:) For me the everyone on one level "thing" is what attracts me to this boat. The flybridges look they are doing 60 standing still, and look ageless to boot........but function won over form this time. Fishing here I like the controls a step away from where I am too to snap the boat into neutral.

Motors did not come with the boat, so I was on my own from the get go for power. I like a single engine just from a cruising efficiency point of view. I have compared the single verses dual engine performance on a number of boats, and it seems clear to me that you pay a hefty price for dragging that extra leg along. So I was going to try my Suzuki 150, but felt it would be working too hard even for my target cruise of 20 knots, and if it did work I would have an engineless boat. Then on Craigslist a 250F yamaha came up that had 3000 hours, and included controls. I had reason to believe the engine had been very well taken care of, and got it with controls and prop for 3500.00 (Canadian) so thought I would try it. If it works out, and I like the boat for my use, I can shop around for a long term engine. I will try the 25 hp tohatsu as a kicker, and expect it will push the boat along at 7-8 knots. This is my old boat speed, so for emergencies only,.....I can hack that. With the right prop I might even use just that engine alone when trolling or even when puttering. The tohatsu 25 is a very nice engine. 3 cyclinder fuel injected so smooth, and one of the most relaxed sounding motors I have ever seen, even 50 rpm below the rev limiter. I presently use it on a 14 foot four Winns fling jet boat I converted from the horrible 120 hp omc jet drive system. It pushes the thing along pretty good doing 20 knots wide open, and I use that as my knock around boat at my cabin up in gibsons.

Captbone, thanks for your thoughts on the propeller. That is pretty much what the propeller calculator predicted I would need. I checked again last night and find I have a 21 inch on the engine at present. That one will not work for sure. As for mounting height, I think I will just start at mounting the engine as low as I can, and hope for the best. The previous owner said it did 50 mph wide open, so those props must have been biting to do that speed. I am thinking that even if the engines are a bit higher than perfect, I can get away with it as my boat speed is going to be lower, and the water always seems to come back up from bottom of boat level on these extended brackets. I put a pod on my 19 foot centre consul aluminium boat when I got rid of the inboard outboard. It extended the engine out 22" and we ended up raising the engine (150 hp suzuki for stroke) higher than we though it was going to be.

Thanks for the picture link CaptPatrick

[captbone]

Your new Yamaha is either a 20 inch or 25inch shaft length? If it is a 20 inch shaft then you will certainly need a 5 inch spacer.

[Howesounder]

Hello and thanks Captbone, no the 250f is a 25 inch, so I think it will be "just" long enough. I expect to need to mount it as low as I can on the G bracket. Hoping that I can manage my design speed at about 3500-3750 rpm. Boat arrives today, and I am stoked to crawl all over etc.

Steve

[Howesounder]

Hello once again. Captbone, I just checked my numbers on the prop calculator and indeed, it suggests 15.9 X 16.7 so this backs up your recommendation. Just checked my prop, and it is a 15 1/4 X 17 so prolly close enough for a first try I would think
I will splash this weekend and come back with some numbers.

Steve

[captbone]

Sounds great. That prop will be fine as is your plan to mount as low as possible. Looking forward to hearing your performance reports as well as some pictures.

[PeterPalmieri]

welcome!

[John F.]

Neat boat. Welcome.

[Howesounder]

Thanks for the reception all. Got to see the boat shortly at the yard yesterday. The interior headroom was a pleasant surprise that's for sure (thanks Ladner!) Couple of things I did notice are that someone must have replaced the glass on the starboard cabin windows and not known how to get the new window in, so they chopped the window frame. (If I recall, you need to simply remove both window felts remove old, install new, then work the felts back in upper and lower) If I could find an old window frame I would snap it up just to bring the boat back to non hacked condition. He used awl-grip on the aluminum trim, and this is lifting off. I will need to strip all of the trim on the boat. The more unpleasant find was softness in the for-deck. Quite a bit of sponginess, in an area of about 2 square feet. Seems pretty serious, and I have never gone in deep on fiberglass repairs. Did have a soft deck on the flybridge part of my 45 pilothouse, and in this larger area I just drilled a dozen holes, and injected the hardest expanding foam they had available. (Pretty dam hard) This worked like a charm, but on this Bertam I would rather do the right repair. Soft decks a known issue?

Steve

[CamB25]

Not sure if they are a known issue, but it is quite possible that the 3/8" plywood has been damaged by water. the penetrations for the front cleat, rode pipe, and vents are likely suspects. If your boat is like my 63 SC, there is no glass under the plywood. With headliner removed (may not be a liner in the anchor area), the structure looks like this:



You can see the darker plywood areas around the penetrations...our friend H20!

We are prepping to lay glass over the plywood in this picture...in days before I went crazy with the sawzall.

Cam