Moving the Rudders aft

Harv · Post by **Harv** » Dec 17th, '07, 20:23

jspiezio wrote:CWJ and Harv, would love to have you guys see the boat when it gets up here. Right now she is in Florida at the yard. Will post some photos for you guys.

She will be spending some time in Montauk each year, so it won't be a bad trip for you Harv. CWJ, you can see her when she is here in WI. Unless you prefer taking a ride out east.

Any trip is longer for me than for Charlie. The boat is in Freeport, but I live in Brooklyn.

jspiezio · Post by **jspiezio** » Dec 17th, '07, 22:02

JP Dalik wrote:If its that big a project cut the transom out and make it a 33. If your gonna make it different might as well go all the way.
Recess the Tabs, standard rudder layout just further aft and lower shaft angle. Its a win win.

I liken what Carl is doing to what classic car afficionados call a "Retro Rod". You completely update the brakes, suspension, and drive train. But your still riding in a 396 SS convertible. If you cut the hull and lengthen it, now you've changed the heart and soul of what makes the boat so great. And then its not a 31B anymore.

Harv and Sean- I get the willies from the idea of cutting the hull like that. but I know that commercial guys have been doing it in wood, fiberglass, aluminum, and steel forever. If you read National Fisherman they seem lengthen, widen, and heighten their boats every season. I woudbe very, very wary.

jspiezio · Post by **jspiezio** » Dec 18th, '07, 14:58

http://s254.photobucket.com/albums/hh97 ... 31_photos/

some shots from this spring. Will get more posted up here soon.

jspiezio · Post by **jspiezio** » Dec 18th, '07, 15:48

Harv wrote: There was a boat in the Hamptons not too long ago where the owner built up the helm area to accomplish the same effect. I also had ideas of making the deck so that the boxes would be eliminated. The two major drawbacks to this approach are, you would then have either a very sharp steep climb into the forward cabin or a long gap at the bulkhead to accomodate a longer, less steep stairway into the cabin. Secondly, you would probably change the center of gravity which could have an adverse affect on the ride quality.....and these bahia Mars ride just fine as is.

The pictures show how we addressed this issue. The forward cabin passage has been shifted to the port instead of center. This alleviated some of the issue of steep descent and awkward gaps.

The bridge deck is less than 8" above the cockpit deck. The engines mounts were all lowered when the stringers/bulkheads were recreated. This also helped with the shaft angle issue.

I rode on a B31 BM that had a similar arrangment. The captain reported an increase of almost 6 knots at WOT, and a little over 4 knots at cruise, with the same powerplants he had before the adjustmentt. The boat ran just beautifully. The boat is used as a tender on a megayacht. The captain said running her is the best part of the job.

John Swick · Post by **John Swick** » Dec 18th, '07, 17:41

I got to get to his shop next time I'm down that way. Having seen pics of some of his other work I liken him as a sort of 'Chip Foose' of B31's.
JSPIEZIO, is there a Head planned for this project ?

jspiezio · Post by **jspiezio** » Dec 18th, '07, 17:57

John S wrote:JSPIEZIO, is there a Head planned for this project ?

According to Carl there will be! It looks tight but he says trust him. He has had a very free hand on this boat. He wanted the side exhausts to alleviate back draft of fumes. Which works for me because the women in the family don't love the smell of diesel the way the men do.

If you look closely you can see the new struts mounted.

[img][img]http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh97 ... 5_0_BG.jpg[/img][/img]

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Dec 19th, '07, 07:48

Looks like a few simple modifications to keep boat going...LOL

A ground up job for sure. I guess as long as you keep us posted we will all be learning on this project.

If you had decided to add a foot or two to the 31 you could have called it the longer version of the 31, then watch the reaction on people faces.

Yes it is a 31 Bertram...but I need a 33' slip as its the longer one.

ZeroCavity · Post by **ZeroCavity** » Dec 19th, '07, 08:28

Photos taken @ Carl's.
This are the famous transom rudders.

jspiezio · Post by **jspiezio** » Dec 19th, '07, 10:33

Thanks ZC.

I don't think any of those are my hull, we do not have under water exhaust as shown. I like to hear the engines.

Harv · Post by **Harv** » Dec 19th, '07, 10:37

ZeroCavity wrote:Photos taken @ Carl's.
This are the famous transom rudders.

Actually looks like a nice well thought out installation. I just don't understand the need for the integrated platform just to hold his tool box. :-D

In Memory of Vicroy · Post by **In Memory of Vicroy** » Dec 19th, '07, 10:53

A bunch of us rode on one of Carl's B31s at the FLL show a few years ago, the one with the all white interior...the underwater exhaust sprays water up at idle through some releif holes, sort of annoying. Maybe he has modified it since.

Think it had 315 Yannies and the sucker was fast....

UV

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Dec 19th, '07, 11:13

Come on Harv, you know the platform is integrated not to hold a tool box.

The platform is there to hold the tape on that "Custom Tool Box Pedestal". I think Randall made it from a block of wood cause if you look closly you can see the grain.

Joking aside, I guess Aft Rudders are not a theory as he seems to be maken them. They do look good, nice and clean.

jspiezio · Post by **jspiezio** » Dec 19th, '07, 11:51

sim wrote:Come on Harv, you know the platform is integrated not to hold a tool box.

The platform is there to hold the tape on that "Custom Tool Box Pedestal". I think Randall made it from a block of wood cause if you look closly you can see the grain.

Joking aside, I guess Aft Rudders are not a theory as he seems to be maken them. They do look good, nice and clean.

Yeah, Carl offered a custom "Custom Tool Box Pedestal" sculpted by Randall, but we need to keep this project under budget!

jspiezio · Post by **jspiezio** » Jan 18th, '08, 20:45

Dad is heading south next week. Will check on his special project over at Elite Marine. Carl says the progress has been tremendous and sees her floating this summer! He also has relayed several offers for the boat that would result in a tidy little profit if dad decides to go that way.

Very excited to get some pics up, I am planning a short trip in Feb so I can see where she's at myself.

ZeroCavity · Post by **ZeroCavity** » Jan 18th, '08, 21:13

PLEASE !!!!! Photos here as soon as posible !!!

scot · Post by **scot** » Jan 18th, '08, 23:30

Who manufactures the external rudder units?

jspiezio · Post by **jspiezio** » Jan 18th, '08, 23:55

I'll ask Carl.

ScottD · Post by **ScottD** » Jan 19th, '08, 09:09

I work just across Salt Creek from Elite Marine and stop in to look over the 31's in progress. I don't think Carl is doing any more underwater exhausts, but the external rudders are popular. On the 28's it really helps when putting in the diesels, not a lot of room to work with. Carl's not big on pictures of his work usually, but if he doesn't mind, I take pic's of all his projects. Most of the guys that looked @ shooter in FLL didn't get a good idea of what Carl does with the interiors, that project didn't include any upgrades, and the interior is what makes his work stand out above everyone else in my opinion. Everything he does is first class, but it don't come cheap, but nothing in boating does.

ScottD

DRIFTER31 · Post by **DRIFTER31** » Jan 19th, '08, 23:17

I saw aguy strech a searay33 flybridge to 36ft and did a great job on glasswork etc.... only problem is it floated to high and was top heavy.

bertram31.com

Moving the Rudders aft

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